• Velour Apparently (Was) Posting as Anonymous At Wartburg Whiners Blog – Also: Megs48 Posting to My Blog Same Person as Buzz English

Velour Apparently (Was) Posting as Anonymous At Wartburg Whiners Blog – Also: Megs48 Posting to My Blog Same Person as Buzz English

(this post has been updated below, July 15 and July 20)

In the midst of researching information for this post, I discovered that a suspicious poster on my blog here, Megs48, is linked to the Whiner blog.

If you are not familiar with the fall-out with a Wartburg Watch member named Velour, please see this post on this blog for background.

The WW blog (Wartburg Whiner) (link to that blog’s home page) is by a person (some  of whom feel is by an individual who goes by the names “Seneca Griggs”) who is obsessed with Deb, Dee, and the TWW (Wartburg Watch blog), but I am unsure who the author of the blog is.

The person who owns WW (“Whiner”) blog has posted to my blog before, under one of the earliest posts here (I am at least assuming this guy, “Buzz English” is the Whiner blog owner).

He showed up here on a much older post and was asking me what I “really” felt or believed about TWW, and her referred me to the Whiner blog. He seemed to be fishing for controversy.

And why would a random person online want my opinion on the Whiner blog, or on if TWW are “bullies,” unless said poster is also the owner who really, really hates Deb and Dee of TWW?

Someone whom I suspect is the WW guy – or a friend of his – who goes by the name “Megs48” – has posted to this Daisy blog a few times and refuses to clarify if she (or he) is in any way affiliated with WW blog; I have asked Megs about three times so far to please clarify her relationship with WW blog and she has not done so.

(Megs is very close to being blocked on this blog, by the way. Edit: well, keep reading. Yes, Megs has been banned, as has Buzz English.)

Oh, interesting. I just checked my blog’s membership information page to research who that earlier commentator was, and I see that the commentator, a “Buzz English,” and Megs48 are the same person.

Megs48 e-mail address contains the phrase “Buzz English” in it. Both screen names are using the same e-mail address to post to this blog, and they have one I.P.# in common. It’s the same person posting under two names. Deceitful stuff!

You are so busted, Megs48 – or Buzz English, or Seneca Griggs, or whomever you are.

Here is what Buzz English said on my blog, in the comment section (link to thread link to Buzz English comment in comment box):

a blog I discovered, wartburgwhiners, seems to suggest a lot of the arguments made by wartburgwatch are actually a form of cyber-bullying.

Your take?

// end quote by Buzz English

According to my blog’s admin area, Buzz English and Megs48 share the same e-mail address, but they have three different IP#s (possibly using a home computer and a work computer to post from), and, at times, one of the IP#s for Megs exactly matches the same one used by Buzz English.

At any rate, WW (the “Whiner”) blog is not one I like to visit.

I looked the blog up tonight to see if WW blog owner guy was admitting on his blog to posting or lurking here on mine (by the way, the Whiner blog guy ignores the experiences of women such as myself who are former complementarians who have rejected complementarians but who are not liberal or feminist; see for example this post or this post, both on this blog, for more information.)

The person who helms WW blog is sexist.

The Wartburg Whiner blog owner really has a lot vested in keeping women secondary in church, probably in marriages, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s the old school variety of cave man sexist who feels women should not receive college educations or hold secular jobs.

(I don’t care to spend more time on his blog investigating his views in-depth. That would be about as appealing as swimming in a sewer.)

I noticed under one of the more recent posts on the WW blog, that a poster posting under the “Anonymous” name sounds an awful lot like Velour.

I’m surprised Velour would now be posting to the “Whiner” blog, considering that the Whiner guy recently slammed her (and possibly me) over our rejection of complementarianism.

(“Megs” left a link to a post by the WW owner where he was slamming Velour – please see this post, by Megs on this blog, for more about that, if you choose. And notice that Megs never did respond to my response there – just ignored it, which is par the course for Megs).

VELOUR on ANTI-TWW “WHINERS” BLOG?

In the comments section of a post at the Whiners blog entitled, “TWW feminists versus N.T. Scripture” (link here is to first comment in the comment section at Whiner blog), we read the following – looks like Velour is posting as “Anonymous” at the Whiner blog (I did not see these posts until July 13):

WHINER BLOG POSTS

Post 1 (on “Whiner” blog):

[comment by] Anonymous July 8, 2017 at 6:10 PM

Dee and Deb are willing to turn their “guns” on anyone who disagrees with them, including moderates and liberals.

They issue threats to people by email. They write hit pieces about members who comment. They have driven countless people away from their blog. It’s Dee and Deb’s way or the highway.

Their blog has taken a turn for the worse, even among once loyal followers. And many people are turned off by the relentless negative articles, as though that’s the only thing that exists in life. There is no balance over at The Wartburg Watch.

// end Anonymous quote

Same thread:

Post 2 ( on “Whiner” blog):

Anonymous July 9, 2017 at 8:50 AM

Many of us have left The Wartburg Watch, disgusted by how negative and out-of-control it is over there.

As one former TWW reader/commenter said, “Dee [Parsons] has become EXACTLY like the [religious] tyrants she writes about.”

// end quote

Please compare those posts with these posts at Wade Burleson’s “Istoria Ministries” blog (link to the thread), where Velour was signing off as “Velour” as most or all of her posts there:

WADE B’s ISTORIA BLOG POSTS

Post 1 (Wade’s Istoria blog) – note it was signed by Velour – Link to comment on blog:

Anonymous said…

Off-topic.

To:CHISTIANE

Yes, there have been some good forms of support and prayers at The Wartburg Watch blog.

I am sure that will continue too, even without me there.

I simply can’t agree with the “hit piece” articles at TWW and the lack of hope and help offered for people struggling with the same problems, hope and help for their spouses, and for their children. Even their friends.

I am glad that you are sympathetic and empathetic. You have many beautiful gifts and I love you for all of them.

Hugs,

Velour

Mon Jul 03, 01:32:00 PM 2017

Post 2 (Wade’s Istoria blog) – note it was signed by Velour – Link to Comment on Blog:

Anonymous said…

Hi Christiane,

And another outraged Wartburg Watch reader contacted me after Dee Parson’s hit piece about me and said that Dee has become like the tyrants she writes about.

The person said she was gobsmacked by Dee’s viciousness and that she too would NEVER return to The Wartburg Watch blog, that its tenor has changed, and she (like many others) wants no part of it.

She wanted to know why “EXACTLY” that Dee would write such an article. She said Dee’s veiled threat came across loud and clear.

-Velour

Sat Jul 08, 02:02:00 AM 2017

Also, Wade’s blog (by Velour; comment link):

Anonymous said…

Ok, Christiane.

It all seems so dramatic and strange over there at The Wartburg Watch.

I will pray for your family’s health. I am sorry to hear about the bad lab reports.

Hugs,

Velour

P.S. Yes, this too — the drama at TWW — shall pass. I’m glad that I am no longer a part of such an, overall, negative community. I miss some positive people like you.

Wed Jul 05, 06:41:00 PM 2017

Also on Wade’s Istoria blog, comment by Velour (link to comment):

Anonymous said…

Off-topic.

To: CHRISTIANE

Thanks for the update. I’ll pray for peoples’ concerns.

There are, in my opinion, lots of unhealthy people at The Wartburg Watch blog who want to take other peoples’ inventories and not their own. It’s not a healthy blog and I won’t be back. I know about half-a-dozen people who are also not coming back to that blog for very similar reasons and they’ve called, emailed me, and sent me messages via Facebook. They’ve reached their limit. (It’ very negative too, the articles. Do we ever hear anything positive?)

I am aware that the person you mention above. Sad. Oh well.

Hugs,

VELOUR

Mon Jul 03, 12:21:00 PM 2017

// end quote

Notice how similar the phrasing is across the posts at both blogs, and the emphasis on how TWW is supposedly too negative, the use of the phrase “hit piece,” etc.

These posts across the two blogs were obviously written by the same person.

I find some of this amusing.

I don’t know how honest Velour is being about lots of people being driven away from TWW due to Dee and Deb’s behavior, as she is claiming.

However, I shared with Dee and Deb privately around the time of Velour’s melt down on their site, that one of several reasons I had cut my own participation at TWW back in recent months was due to Velour and Christiane.

Specifically, due to Velour and Christiane monopolizing the comment box over a period of many months, accompanied by Velour’s bossy behavior in the comment box in recent months, and Christiane’s subtle jabs at conservatives and non-Catholics, as well as her phoniness.

Velour and Christiane partially drove me away from TWW, LOL, and here Velour is suggesting that Deb and Dee have drove folks away from TWW.

I can understand to a degree if Velour is angry or upset with TWW – not that I am excusing or agreeing with her behavior on the Sproul thread and so on – but it’s not a bright idea, IMO, for her to go to the “Wartburg Whiners” blog, either. The guy behind the Whiner blog is no prize himself.

—July 15 Update—

I have been notified off this blog that Whiner blog has made some updates (I truly hate that guy’s blog and would prefer to avoid it). But I dropped by after being given alerts.

In a July 14 post, the Whiner Blog guy is thrilled his blog is getting more traffic – probably via mine. Irony. His post is:

Getting more visitors daily – UPDATE on Wartburg Whiner blog

It’s most likely women who are dropping by his blog which is contributing to his increase in blog numbers. Not men. This is funny considering the guy is a sexist stooge who thinks women are the dirt beneath men’s feet.

Seneca (aka Megs / Whiner blog guy / Jimmy) don’t think women are good or worthy enough to teach or lead in churches, but my good gravy, does he ever think women are good enough to be visitors to his blog and increase his blog stats.

Then there is this comment at the bottom of that page:

Anonymous [Likely Velour] July 14, 2017 at 5:34 PM  on Wartburg Whiner blog

Jimmy (whomever he is) and Anonymous have “never connected”. Attorneys and legal groups are involved in California to help Anonymous. Dee and Deb are in North Carolina.

//end

“Anonymous” is likely Velour, it’s pretty obvious by now, given the clues I pointed out above.

Just sign your name to those posts, Velour. We all know it’s you.

“Jimmy” is “James Brown,” also known as “Seneca Griggs,” most likely also known as “Megs48,” and “Buzz English,” and likely the guy who owns the “Wartburg Whiners” blog.

Velour, that you have been posting to Whiner guy’s blog is a form of you “connecting” with him.

You may not be painting each other’s toe nails and braiding each other’s hair in sleep overs, but you are using his “Whiners” blog comment box to complain about Wartburg Watch blog.

An attorney to help you with what, exactly, Velour? I’m not following.

You’re – Velour –  posting under a fake, single-name screen name, not your real name. It’s not as though people are posting false things about you under your real name.

People have a legal right to post publicly about public comments and actions you’ve taken online.

Why is she trying to bully people into silence by issuing legal threats?

I note that on another Whiner blog post, Whiner blog guy deleted Dee’s post:

Link to comment [by Dee]

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

—July 20, 2017 Update—

I was alerted in the comment box of this thread that something was going on at Wade’s Istoria blog, so I ventured on over and found this (July 19) post by Velour (who posted as “Anonymous”).

Velour continues to post to Wade’s blog’s thread about this, even though I told her a few days ago on that thread she should probably take it off his site and take it to hers, or use this thread on my blog to talk these things over.

Velour continues to misrepresent TWW and various participants at that blog, though I have corrected her a few times now.

Here is a quote from Velour’s post:

They [her lawyer friends] asked what this heated debate was about and were incredulous that The Wartburg Watch couldn’t cover a public health epidemic about addictions (alcoholism and drugs) and advocated that people with those problems be kicked out of churches!

Not medical care or other help was advocated for those addicted, nor help for their spouses, nor help for their children. No education and resources were given…for a public health epidemic! Talk about a missed opportunity and a missed educational moment.

— end Velour quote —

Nobody at TWW advocated for alcoholics to be kicked out of churches except for Barbara Roberts. Nobody said that alcoholics should not receive treatment. Velour is lying.

The subject of the TWW thread was an alcoholic preacher, Sproul Jr, who was possibly putting his children in harm’s way. The thread was not intended to be a discussion about how best to treat addictions, or what should churches do about addictions.

It’s one thing to complain that one was treated unfairly in one’s perception on a blog and pitch a fit over that (I am okay with that, I get it), but when one is still repeating the same fabrications over and over (such as, “everyone at the blog said alcoholics should get kicked out of churches!” and, “nobody there believes that alcoholics should ever get treatment!”) that is an indication that the person is either delusional (not living in the same reality as the rest of us) or is deceptive.

How can someone who claims to care about victims, and so on, be so dishonest? Velour hurt and offended a few people on that Sproul thread at TWW, but does she care? No.

Velour claims to care about drug addicts and so on, but she took a tacky, insensitive dig at Dee at Wade’s blog by asking in one post something about, “Why is Dee acting so weird, is it those drugs she’s hopped up on?”

If Dee were taking doctor- prescribed medications for her foot and leg problems, Velour, is it sensitive of you to mock her for that, to portray her as being or acting loopy for taking pain medications?

I thought you were St. Velour, the Defender and Protector of All Who Use Drugs and Medications and See Doctors? But here you are mocking someone over possibly taking medications to treat physical pain?

As this astute Anon commentator put it (who was not me; any time I have posted to that thread, I have used my “Daisy” name):

Anonymous said… (comment link)

…and you had no time to talk to dee, Velour?

— end Anon quote —

Velour does have time to run to Wade’s blog and leave these long comments, and to consult with her lawyer friends about blogging, but she cannot arrange a 10 – 30 minute phone call with Dee?

Velour also kept mentioning lawyers in her post, such as…

…. now the big law firms and attorneys representing WordPress, other blogging companies, and First Amendment groups are now involved in California (my state).
The big law firm Copyright and First Amendment attorneys advised the WordPress company about the design of the reblog feature prior to its release to users so that it would comply with federal Copyright Law, “Fair Use” law, so that rebloggers who follow blogs like TWW aren’t in violation of federal law.
So now all of those attorneys are spending time on this.

— (end Velour quote)–

I don’t know why Velour keeps mentioning “big shot attorneys.” Is this some sort of intimidation tactic?

In spite of the fact myself and a few others have corrected Velour several times over on these same matters, she keeps repeating the same falsehoods: that all of us advise that addicts be kicked out of churches, or that addicts not seek out treatment.

Velour is lying. Stop lying about other people’s views, Velour. Stop attributing views to them which they do not hold.

Velour: If you would apologize for your behavior on the TWW thread (and for some of it on Wade’s blog) and calm down, I think most everyone would be willing to give you a second chance, but you stubbornly keep up these false narratives and keep digging your hole deeper.

 


More on This Blog:

Christian Gender Complementarianism is Christian-Endorsed Codependency for Women (And That’s Not A Good Thing)

Even Warm and Fuzy, True, Correctly-Implemented Gender Complementarianism is Harmful to Women, and It’s Still Sexism – Yes All Comps (Refuting “Not All Comps”)

Yes, Complementarianism Infantilizes Women – and the Complementarian Tie-Breaking Vote Doctrine

The Shifting Goal Posts of Complementarianism Show How Bankrupt It Is

Christian Gender Complementarian Analogies Do Not Work

Gender Complementarianism: Marriage, Singleness, Purpose, Identity, Domestic Abuse

A Response to the Complementarian ‘The Beauty of Womanhood Essay’ by Abagail Dodds

Basic Overview of Codependency – And How Some Christians Misunderstand or Misrepresent Codependency

Doctrines, Theological Views, and Biblical Hermeneutics Have Real-Life Consequences – Personal Experience Vs. Sola Scriptura

Gender Complementarianism: Marriage, Singleness, Purpose, Identity, Domestic Abuse

Examples of Girls and Women Being Assertive at Work, in Life, Women as Rescuers and Heroines

Christian Gender Complementarianism, Lists, Rules, and Over-Promises

Gender Inclusivity Isn’t Liberal. It’s Biblical. by Kate Shellnut

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92 thoughts on “• Velour Apparently (Was) Posting as Anonymous At Wartburg Whiners Blog – Also: Megs48 Posting to My Blog Same Person as Buzz English

  1. “I can understand to a degree if Velour is angry or upset with TWW – not that I am excusing or agreeing with her behavior on the Sproul thread and so on – but it’s not a bright idea, IMO, for her to go to the “Wartburg Whiners” blog, either. The guy behind the Whiner blog is no prize himself.”

    Now there is an understatement. I went over there. So his big deal seems to be women not knowing their place and the silly charge of “inerrancy” which doesn’t seem to include much in depth study. So, the comments dissecting this kingdom issue on TWW really upset this guy, it seems.

    Politics and anger make strange bedfellows. Or is it, the enemy of my enemy is my friend? Did I get that right?

    • @ Lydia.
      You have more courage and strength than I do. I skimmed a few of Whiner guy’s posts the other day when I was at his site (and a couple months ago when Megs left me a link to one of his posts on my Daisy blog), but I cannot bear to read most of his posts word – for – word.

      Your line here,
      “Politics and anger make strange bedfellows. Or is it, the enemy of my enemy is my friend? Did I get that right?”

      Great minds think alike! I was thinking about editing the OP above to say about Velour posting to Whiner guy’s blog must be an indication that she must operate under the philosophy that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.” – Concerning Whiner Blog Guy, I’d say, no to that!

      Whiner Blog guy had just mocked and criticized Velour (and I think me too, hard to say who he was picking on specifically) in one of his “anti women posts” a few weeks ago.

      That Whiner Blogger came here under his “Megs” name to point me to that very post (I am at least assuming that Megs is the owner of Whiner Blog).

      I then mentioned that post over at TWW, Velour saw it, and she seemed at least mildly annoyed by it, or by him. Now, here she is seemingly leaving posts at his blog bashing TWW under the “Anonymous” name.

      My blog here would actually be a safer, more fair place for Velour to air any complaints about TWW or me.

      If she wants to come into the comments on this thread or my last one (about Victim Bullies) and cuss me out, tell me to drop dead, give her side of the story, or whatever she wants to get off her chest, she is welcome.

      I may have my flaws, but I do not play games with people, I don’t lie about who I am, and, I’m not going to use her or exploit her.

      Velour seems to have poor friend- or acquaintance- choosing ability. I don’t know if she’s too trusting, too naive, or what.

      She first friended around with Christiane (who I believe is or was using her to promote her own agenda), and now, here she was apparently (kind of) befriending the very guy (Whiner Blog guy) who had ripped on her in a previous thread.

      I get being so angry at “person X” (or “blog X”) online you want to vent about them some where else online, but to go to your former “enemy’s” site (the guy who mocks you, or used to) to engage in that very behavior doesn’t come across as a very good idea. It seems a little counter-productive to me.

      • Daisy,

        If the whiner is Seneca (and I have no reason to doubt sergius) then he goes way back for me all the way to the early days of fbcjax watchdog. I know exactly his game. On the watchdog blog the whiner was obsessed with “Touch not thy anointed” . (Didn’t do his homework on it, though). He is always pro pastor and anti woman. That’s the Shitck. Period.

        But I am a bit amused he masquerades as a woman on other blogs. Must be de-edifying for him. Hee hee.

        • @ Lydia
          I remember from skimming over one of Whiner’s posts a couple days ago, that he made some kind of remark about Bible verses and how Deb, Dee, and “feminists” don’t think those verses apply to people today.

          He’s one of those guys who thinks the ‘I forbid a woman to teach’ sort of verses are timeless commands.

          The older I get and my views shift on the Bible (and other issues – but note I am not a liberal), I get more and more annoyed by that sort of thing.

          I’m so tired of Christians who grant only one “godly” or “right” way to read or use the Bible. They end up mis-applying the Bible and doing a great deal of harm to people in reality, but they don’t care.

          They have more loyalty to their interpretation of the Bible, which they refuse to see MIGHT be mistaken, than to the Bible itself, or to people.

          Then they have the nerve to accuse any one who doesn’t share their interpretation with some pejorative, like “feminist,” or what have you, or to say you have caved to secular culture. (Edit: though I can see how this may be true regarding other current controversial cultural topics)

          Why can’t some of these complementarian guys just come to see that maybe their interpretation and/or application of some verses may be in error?

          And, I’d like them to stop assuming that rejecting complementarianism equals “you now must become a liberal and bra- burning feminist.” Nonsense. I dumped complementarianism years back and have not turned into a liberal or a Democrat.

          Yeah, it is funny Whiner Blog guy, who, in my view, has a low view of women, chooses to post to my blog under a feminine-sounding name.

      • “I get being so angry at “person X” (or “blog X”) online you want to vent about them some where else online, but to go to your former “enemy’s” site (the guy who mocks you, or used to) to engage in that very behavior doesn’t come across as a very good idea. It seems a little counter-productive to me.”

        Yes. I agree. But you don’t have the “do battle” mentality, either. It’s a whole other realm best to avoid unless there is a real hill to die on.

        I very much appreciate your allowing discussion here so I could let people know I was not a sock puppet on the Sproul thread as Christiane was trying to imply on other blogs. Even to the point of accusing another commenter, on a totally unrelated blog, of being me. I was drug into something I was never involved with and she drug in others at other blogs. Not well done. Not “kind”– her favorite word. . In fact, I went to lengths to avoid her. I despise clever game playing manipulative deception whether it’s a pastor or a clever commenter. I avoid manipulators unless I am paid well enough to deal with them in my business. But then I also document everything. (Wink)

        • @ Lydia.
          You’re welcome for a venue on which to discuss this stuff

          I agree that it’s not kind of Christiane to do what she’s doing to you on other sites.

          Re: “Even to the point of accusing another commenter, on a totally unrelated blog, of being me.”

          I had a guy do this to me years ago. He stalked me for literally YEARS (he’d e-mail me AND comment about me publicly on different forums). Even after I stopped replying to him, I would see him accusing other people of being me on other sites. It was rather pathetic.

          Since V has her own blog, why doesn’t (or didn’t) she just vent her spleen on her own blog? I don’t see the sense in going to Whiner Blog or spending about 4 days back and forth with Christiane on Wade’s blog about this stuff. Just post on your own blog, and invite Christiane or whomever to that blog.

  2. The Deebs at TWW know exactly who Seneca Griggs is. Sergius did the research and clued us in. We also received confirmation from people who know him.

    Seneca Is Jimmy (James)Brown. He is reportedly both a counselor (can you imagine?) and has been an elder in his church in Florida. According to those claim to know him, he is a difficult man who is into the male authority thing. He really likes CJ Mahaney. Seneca Griggs, his pseudonym, was a relative of his who fought in the Civl War (I hope I got the right war.)

    I prefer to call him Jimmy. It might be helpful to know that Jimmy has been kicked off a number of other blogs. He appears to believe that most victims of abuse are not telling the truth.

    He claim to have been kicked off of our blog. The real story is this. A number of people felt quite hurt by his comments. We give him an ultimatum. We told him to go away for at least two weeks and regroup. He was also put into permanent moderation. He never returned.

    No one comments at his blog. If you look at the few comments he has receiveD, a few of them were signed S.G. Bless his heart. He is talking to himself.

    Isn’t it nice that he and Velour have found each other?

    • @ Dee.

      I’m a little bummed to find out that the guy who is behaving in a jerky manner on this blog, other sites, and on the Whiner Blog, shares the same name as the great entertainer James Brown (“I feel good, duh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh, I knew that I would now!”).

      You said,
      “Isn’t it nice that he and Velour have found each other?”

      It’s a little odd to me that Velour would choose to vent her spleen about TWW, not on her own blog (which she could do), but under a post by a guy who usually mocks her (he seemed to cite her – or maybe me – in an “anti women” post on the Whiner blog, about women serving in the military a couple weeks ago. I pointed this out at TWW, Velour saw my TWW comment about it, and was miffed at the guy for his post).

      I was not even looking for, or expecting to find anything by Velour at the Whiner blog when I visited the other day. That was a surprise.

      The only reason I went to the Whiner blog two nights ago (I really do not like his blog and hate to visit it), is I was doing recon or detective work on a person posting to my Daisy blog named “Megs48.”

      I suspected “Megs” was somehow affiliated with Whiner blog, so I went to his blog to find clues on that.

      That is when I skimmed the comment box on one recent Whiner post to see that an Anonymous person who sounded an awful lot like Velour left 2 or 3 posts there, complaining about TWW.

      (I did not visit other posts by that guy, so I don’t know if she left comments under other posts.)

      You said,

      He claim to have been kicked off of our blog. The real story is this. A number of people felt quite hurt by his comments. We give him an ultimatum. We told him to go away for at least two weeks and regroup. He was also put into permanent moderation. He never returned.

      Just to be clear, I did block the e-mail address he was using to post to this blog as “Buzz English” and “Megs48” (again, I’m assuming that Jimmy / Seneca Griggs / Whiner blog guy are all the same person as Buzz and Megs).

      I don’t want that trouble making person posting to my blog.

      I know you take pride in allowing people with opposing views to post to your blog, which is fine, but on my Daisy blog, I really don’t think I am up to debating gender complementarianism with comps who want to argue about it, you know?

      This is more a site for me to muse aloud and hear from like-minded as opposed to a debate forum. And I get the feeling that Jimmy / Seneca / Megs want to argue with me in the comment section about this stuff, and I’m really not interested.

      I haven’t decided if I will also block Seneca / Megs / Jimmy’s IP #s. I may or may not. In the time being, I’ve only blocked the one e-mail address he was using to post here.

  3. PS Our experience with Jimmy Brown is that he always tries to slip on through with different names. Thank you for letting us know his current attempts. He always kept us on our toes since his commenting style was similar to that of Velour’s comments.

    • @ Dee.
      You’re welcome.

      I sort of feel like a dummy for not checking my blog’s admin area about commentators sooner.

      I should have.

      I was a moderator for a good long time at a very busy Christian discussion board that used to get tons of visitors, and some of them were trouble makers who were just there to troll. You’d block them under one name, they’d try to sneak in under another, etc.

      Something felt “off” to me about “Megs48” from the start. I should’ve checked her info out in this blog’s admin section much sooner than I did. It just didn’t occur to me.

      I guess because this blog is so small and doesn’t get many visitors, I am having a hard time believing it was targeted so soon by a person who likes to troll and stir the pot.

  4. Dee, I remember “Seneca” from way back reading FBCJax watchdog blog when it came online. He was a big supporter of Brunson in those days.

    in his world you guys are nothing but Jezebels! (Although my hero is Jael. Hee hee)

  5. Jimmy, speaking of kingdom gender debates, is there a psychological reason for you posing as a lowly female on blogs? (Wink)

    • @ Lydia, who said,

      Jimmy, speaking of kingdom gender debates, is there a psychological reason for you posing as a lowly female on blogs? (Wink)

      I know that’s probably a rhetorical, but on the off chance it is not, I blocked Jimmy from posting to this blog, at least via the one e-mail address he was using to post here as “Megs48” and “Buzz English.”

      According to Dee, I may be able to look forward to him trying to sneak back to this blog under yet another name or e-mail address.

  6. I didn’t go and check Wartburg Whiners (that would make a great punk band name!) but Christiane is still posting over at Istoria, trying to connect with Velour. Maybe someone should post a comment there to send her over to Whiner. Might be the most traffic he gets all year.

    Irony that it’s female traffic!

    Kudos to the Wartburg Watch for taking action. I respect anyone who puts themselves out there for a good cause.

    I’ve been reading the comments section for the past couple of posts, a lot of the good folks are still there along with some familiar ones returning, so good work!

    • @ Dee.
      Yes, I can let you know if I get any take down notices. So far, I have not heard a peep from Velour or Christiane.

      I guess Velour is in the habit of issuing legal threats to people who she’s unhappy with or something?

      I don’t see how offering commentary with links to public material is law suit worthy, or illegal.

      Especially goofy, considering “Velour” is just a screen name. Nobody here is posting about her in regards to her true name or any other identifying information.

      I don’t know her street address, for example, and even if I did, I would not publicize it, certainly not for nefarious purposes.

  7. I thought it might be helpful to let people know that we have lost virtually no readers since the dustup. Our stats are stable and high. Those numbers show no loss but I am sure it overlooks one or two since we know they are gone. Maybe they are still reading?

    Right now, we are over 400 comments on our previous post. This is without *She Whose Name Must Not Be Spoken* and alleged compatriots. Lots of people are getting to comment as well. We are thrilled with the outcome as well as the level of discussion. Sometimes, God works in mysterious ways.

    Thank you for giving us a forum for discussion. It has helped me to get the word out without inflicting the weirdness on the poor, long-suffering folks at TWW. Thank you for being willing to put up with the weirdness. I owe you, big time.

    You have no idea how many emails I got from folks who were deeply hurt over the last 6 months by *She Whose Name Must Not Be Spoken.” I should have brought things to a head much sooner and once again, I apologize for delaying the inevitable.I feel terrible about the whole thing. I told GBTC that he has permission to say “I told you so.” He did!

    • Hmmm…SWNMNBS …well, that’s a mouthful for an acronyn…
      Dee, thank you for posting here. It has helped. I honestly wondered if I was just crazy for my reaction to SWNMNBS. I’m glad to know it wasn’t just me. 😉

      And yes, thank you Daisy for being willing to post these posts and provide a forum for discussion. Much appreciated.

      Ah, yes….who could forget Jimmy/Seneca…..if Christiane joins the whiners, that could prove interesting….

      • @ Jeannette

        Re: “SWNMNBS”

        I suggested to Dee the name of “Velemort”
        (combination of V’s screen name plus Harry Potter’s “Voldemort,” who was referred to by the phrase “He whose name must not be said” or something in the books).

        You said,

        Ah, yes….who could forget Jimmy/Seneca…..if Christiane joins the whiners, that could prove interesting….

        That one is hard to call.

        Christiane has a public persona of being super duper nice to maintain, and if she runs over to the Whiner blog to bash TWW or whomever, she would be tarnishing her Nice Girl Persona that she uses to push her agenda.

        You’re welcome for the venue to discuss this stuff.

    • So it was a whole lot of feathers and not much chicken after all.

      Regarding take down notices, I’m no legal expert but news organizations run redacted emails all the time.

      If I send you a letter, email, twitter message whatever, then it becomes your property. Emails and messages have been shared before.

      Ethically and morally if I tell you something confidential then it’s a matter of trust but even then the only way it would be slanderous would be if you made a false statement or attack beyond any documentation received.

      Not sure how things work in the blogging world but it seems the biggest online no no is to post copyright material outside of the fair use laws.

    • @ Dee.

      I have not been posting to TWW much in the last few months, for various reasons (one of which would be Velour and Christiane), but I do still sometimes drop by the home page and scan the headlines.

      Maybe others were doing the same.

      You said,

      This is without *She Whose Name Must Not Be Spoken* and alleged compatriots.

      Sounds like a female version of “Voldemort” from Harry Potter books and movies.

      Hybrid name: “Vel-e-mort?”

      You said,

      Lots of people are getting to comment as well. We are thrilled with the outcome as well as the level of discussion

      So, maybe I was not the only one who didn’t feel comfortable posting as much there so long as Velour and/or Christiane were posting frequently?

      Posting a lot may not even be a huge problem (I’ve been guilty of posting there quite frequently in the past myself), but V especially seemed to have an attitude that the TWW blog was hers, and she could boss folks around.

      You said,

      Thank you for giving us a forum for discussion

      You’re welcome. I’m glad I could offer a venue where all this could be discussed.

      You said,

      You have no idea how many emails I got from folks who were deeply hurt over the last 6 months by *She Whose Name Must Not Be Spoken.”

      I was not aware, no.

      I just gritted my teeth for months of her behavior, until I stopped posting as much and only popped in on occasion to glance the blog’s headlines.

      I finally blew up at her in the Sproul thread, though, because her behavior was very patronizing towards myself, a few others, and was, IMO, way out of line.

      I’m glad I finally spoke out publicly in that thread though, b/c a few others said, “I was thinking the same thing as you but didn’t know if I could or should speak up too.”

      (I’ve gotten some feedback like that on this blog and on my Daisy Twitter, too)

      Someone on my last thread about all this said that “Velemort” was still posting back and forth with Christiane at Wade’s blog about all this as late as July 14 / 15
      (here (Istoria thread)).

      She is still maintaining, in the comment box there, the view that people at TWW in that Sproul thread were being “hateful” or “mean” or “shaming’ addicts. She does not cite specifics of those claims, no examples.

      I did not see anyone in that thread, so long as I was in it, shaming or being hateful to addicts. Unless she is still regarding Robert’s “kicking them out of church” to be shaming / mean / hateful.

  8. John
    I agree with your thinking as do many people who have advised us. There are some people who find meaning in * going to battle* even if there is precious little to fight about. I only wish I could have spoken with SWNMNBS. Alas, it is not to be.

    In the meantime, I am so happy to see the blog proceeding and back on track. We are committed to making sure it stays that way. We are making the changes to the blog that we have intended. It slowed down after I got sick but things are looking up. I decided to do a lighthearted post for the weekend. We have some interesting things coming up for the next week.

  9. You can’t get more light hearted than Piper and ta tas. Thank the Lord we can laugh about His Supreme Nuttiness, the Pope of the Neo Cal movement.

    • @ Lydia. I was just glancing over the recent Piper post at TWW and may post a few times over there about it. He’s so ridiculous about women.

  10. I admit it’s like watching a sad train wreck but they are still going on Wades blog as of today. Christiane still can’t email. Invites her to imonk twice saying he won’t mind (earlier comment) and then asking Velour to keep her informed….on Wades blog!!! Velour posts a lecture about addiction for us ignorant plebes.

    Christiane, the arbiter of ‘kindness”, wants it to continue to play in real time. Because now she is the only one who really, really, cares, I suppose. Despite her manipulation of trying to drag me into this on other blogs. Does she “care” about me?

    Ok. I’m in. But beware. I prefer facts and truth over someone else’s skewed definition of “kindness” and caring. But Velour really does get it. Christiane groomed her but wasn’t available when she felt she needed her…in private. So much for really really caring.

    Wade, where is the spirit working in all this manipulation, faux niceness and doing battle?

    • @ Lydia

      (For anyone else reading):
      The thread on Wade’s blog for that is here (Istoria blog, see the comment box below)
      – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

      “Velemort” is really sticking to her stance on Wade’s blog that the folks on TWW were being mean, shameful, or hateful towards addicts, but she does not give any specific examples.

      Her attitude comes across as though she is enlightened about all this, and the rest of us are big dummies – even though some of us (such as me) are RELATED to addicts / alcoholics and said so on TWW in that thread.

      I notice that Christiane invited Velemort to iMonk (a blog I seldom post to). It’s like my Daisy blog is one of the only blogs she is allergic to. She hasn’t posted here yet. She still can to defend herself on these threads, if she likes.

      My blog is set to moderated status, but should she post, I would approve any post of hers to appear – haven’t had one show up yet in this blog’s admin section, though.

      You said,

      But Velour really does get it. Christiane groomed her but wasn’t available when she felt she needed her…in private. So much for really really caring.

      That really turns me off. Lead someone on, pretend to be on friendly terms, but then ignore them when they are reaching out to you and asking to contact in private.

      That is really, really crummy behavior and not “kind.”

      • The sad part of this whole thing is this. I made it clear that I worked in an alcoholic hospital when I was in college. My father was the chief of the medical staff. My brother is now certified in substance abuse treatment as a physician. The hospital, Mt Pleasant in Lynn, closed and the services were assumed by Lynn Hospital.

        In the post, I talked about my experiences. I also described why I believe the alcoholism is a medical condition, a psychological condition and a condition of the heart. My uncle died of alcoholism. My husband’s father was an alcoholic. I am supportive of AA ,Alanon, etc. I said this in the post.

        She now claims we don’t care for people going through this struggle. That is fiction.

  11. Comment on whiners:

    AnonymousJuly 14, 2017 at 5:34 PM
    Jimmy (whomever he is) and Anonymous have “never connected”. Attorneys and legal groups are involved in California to help Anonymous. Dee and Deb are in North Carolina.

    Reply

    Sheesh! Over hurt feelings? Give me a break.

      • I would agree. The person was very much a booster of the blog and it’s mission and then boom! You guys are the worst people in the blogosphere.

        I sincerely hope that given the intense material you sometimes bring forward, particularly where religion is involved, that you take measures to protect yourselves. And I don’t mean from blog comments. You shared a story where someone at your church recognized you.

        Stay safe and don’t be shy about bringing in law enforcement where needed.

      • I agree it is bizarre and that you should take good care. Like u mentioned in the email I sent a couple of days ago, if SWNMNBM is ineed a malignant narcissist, then trying to destroy your rep and blog would be a ‘normal’ response. It is the only reason I can think of that she would go and try to stir up Jimmy. My mom used to take pleasure in stirring my dad up to high indignation toward me and then sit and warch as he came at me with unexpected and disproportionate wrath. So, in the context of natcissism, it is not bizarre.

      • @ Dee.

        She is still talking to Christiane on the Istoria Ministry blog and left Beaker J and myself a comment on Wade’s blog.

        I left her a two part reply (the Istoria blog wouldn’t let me post it in one big post).

        My replies to her on the Istoria blog, here:

        My Reply, Part 1

        My Reply, Part 2

        I updated my prior post on this blog about this situation with that information.

        I told her in my Part 1 / Part 2 on the Istoria blog, I don’t know why she doesn’t avail herself of her own blog or come here to mine on threads like this to post about this.

        She is still mischaracterizing anyone who disagrees with her about addiction, and she says I defended Roberts on your blog. Yes, I did (in a manner of speaking), but not Roberts’ opinion.

        I had told V on your blog that I am somewhat agnostic about Robert’s view of “kicking addicts out,” but I was defending Roberts from V’s rude behavior of Roberts and others.

        I told V I don’t even care too much about her opinions about alcoholics, what burned my biscuits is how she was being rude to people while discussing her views.

        I cannot tell if she is being deliberately obtuse to make people look bad, or if she does not sincerely understand my views (and the views of others).

  12. One lovely man who has been a long time reader and has openly mentioned he struggled with alcohol is so sad about what is going on. He tried to blame it on himself! Almost everyone on our blog knows him. I reassured him that he did nothing wrong. He was played by SWNMNBM who appears to have much pain in her life.

    Threats regarding lawyers and reports and take down notices? For what? I didn’t even disagree with her on the Sproul blog. I merely asked to speak with her and never did. She, nor does anyone else except Deb, know what I was going to say. Sadly, it was going to be a kind conversation. SWNMNBM will never know since I was told never to contact her/her again.

    I am now left with threats of “lawyers groups.” For what? I have to admit, and I will say it here, that I am now becoming a bit concerned, not for the lawyers since that is a nothing burger, for my safety. Maybe it is an overreaction but this is becoming more and more bizarre and I am officially *a bit worried.*

    • I’m glad you were able to reassure him. It is never fun to be played. Doubly so when it is something that is already a painful issue.

      As to being worried, I understand. Take good care of yourself.

    • I “am now left with threats of “lawyers groups.” For what? I have to admit, and I will say it here, that I am now becoming a bit concerned, not for the lawyers since that is a nothing burger, for my safety. Maybe it is an overreaction but this is becoming more and more bizarre and I am officially *a bit worried.*”

      You should be. Take this stuff seriously. I know because my kids were targeted years ago when I blogged. Since then I do not publish personal info. And sadly it is being encouraged as Christiane continues to stirs the pot. There are unreasonable people out there. There are people who are purposely vague, plant poisonous seeds and manipulate because they derive personal pleasure from it. They think if makes them pious. I was surrounded by these fake types in the mega church world. They have no intention to ever have direct communication and only use such venues to further manipulate as they “pray for your peace because you are obviously troubled”. Sorry but that constant behavior is just evil deception. And accusatory. They thrive on attention and interaction they can control and manipulate. Best not to give it to them unless you are willing to play that deceptive game using our Lord as a cover for it. Very disappointed that Wade hosts the poisonous manipulation.

  13. Oh, since the person who is doing this says her social media box is stuffed with complaints about TWW, I have one thing to say. Our Friday post as verging on 400 comments like our Wednesday post.Since so many people have left, where are these folks going from? Also, the comment section is far more pleasant than in the recent past. If all these people who left is the reason for this, then all the Deebs can say is “Thank you. Kept it up.”

    (edited by Daisy only to fix typo)

  14. Daisy

    Just a piece of advice to help you out. If you get any new commenters, be sure to run their IP through the website What is my Ip? Check to see if you are getting anyone who is using a proxy server. I would be happy to discuss this off line with you.

    • @ Dee.
      I’ll let you know if anything weird happens, if it seems to be connected to anyone we’ve been discussing in this post or comment box.

    • @ Dee.
      I just ran over and took a look (link: Velour’s July 19 comment at Wade’s blog), came back here, and amended the original post at the top to add a “July 20, 2017 Update.”

      She keeps repeating the same false information, in spite of the fact she’s been corrected a few times, and she kept going on about consulting lawyers.

      I don’t know how someone can find the time to write long blog posts and consult with attorneys about blogging but cannot squeeze in 10 to 30 minutes for a phone call to someone.

      All she has to do is just apologize, or at least behave in a normal fashion (stop the weird obsession depicting us all as hating addicts etc), and I think most would let by-gones by by- gones.

      Also don’t know why she won’t comment here or on her own blog to pontificate, but keeps running to Wade’s blog.

      I haven’t been to the Whiner blog, so I don’t know if she’s been on there again or not.

      I don’t know if Velour grasps this or not, but just because something is legal doesn’t necessarily make it moral or ethical.

      Considering her behavior at TWW, I think her removing TWW re-blogs at Deb’s request would be the fair, polite, classy, moral thing to do. But she wants to argue “the lawyer say it’s okay” (for her to keep the TWW content on her blog).

      Also, she keeps repeating how your TWW blog post didn’t mention treatment plans, discussions about what a health epidemic alcoholism is…

      But that was NOT the point of your thread! Your thread was about ONE specific alcoholic (Sproul Jr) who was possibly endangering the lives of his kids when he went drunk driving.

      Why does she think your blog post about him should be broader to discuss how churches should cope with addicts and so on?

      If she feels so strongly about it, why not just ask you if you would allow her to do a guest post to discuss addiction in general and how should churches help addicts????

    • To riff on what Beakerj mentioned, there is grandiosity, unreasonableness to the point of irrationality, and a sense of insincerity. I smell narcissism.

      It is humorous in a sad sort of way that every time I get away from reading for a day of two, I start second guessing whether I’m being too harsh in that assessment. But then another comment is posted and I’ll go back and skim the comments on record…and I am again, more firmly convinced than ever, that I am witnessing a narcissistic tantrum.

      Dee, although she is probably exaggerating the threat to you (Ns are master exaggeraters), please seek advise, in case there is a little fire beneath all the smoke being blown.

      • ‘narcissistic tantrum’ – those two words make a lot of sense. My(soon to be former) MIL is a narcissist & that repetition of far fetched sounding claims, with an underlying rage & outrage that you must believe them & how dare you not, is a bit familiar to me.

  15. I’d rather see the names for the California attorneys. (Wink)She went down this road about Tony Jones. Siccing big important mean Calif attys on people.

    Sounds to me she is saying there is no legal precedent about not copying blog posts in WP (or whatever the process is called.

    Ok. She won. She doesn’t have to comply with a public request. So what? What next? I really don’t get this. Btw, do the courts still use “reasonable person” as a standard? That just might be very different in California. (Wink)

  16. I’ve just caught up with the fact that this is *still* going on, & that SWMNBN has left me another small lecture designed to deflect from the real issue that started this & prompted my original comment at TWW.

    The fact that there’s an addiction epidemic in the US in no way lessens the fact that the blog post was about a specific individual with alcoholism, that her behaviour in that thread was painfully rude & that she has wilfully misrepresented what was said in there over & over & over again. All her protestations & lectures are just the online equivalent of her speaking louder & louder over others she disagrees with, wh have already shown her to be factually incorrect.

    It’s frankly embarrassing & makes me wince, particularly when she bandies about numbers – which now seem to be up from a small platoon to a large army – of former readers & lurking addicts who are flocking to her in outrage & disgust. Another army of crack lawyers are laughing like loons over TWW’s poor grasp of …something…& are even now preparing a withering response designed prevent the collapse of civilisation as we know it.

    I’m being sarcastic, as that is my wont, but actually I’m pretty worried too. There is a level of grandiosity in her responses, plus their repetitive nature that makes me uneasy. I really really sincerely hope she is well, but I now have my doubts, plus growing ones about who she is at all.

    FWIW, as well as the reasons I gave at TWW & one I spoke to Dee about, I also find the kind of religious language used by V, & C come to that, very difficult. It mostly sounds insincere to my ear, & very passive aggressive, & also made me jump over many threads I would have read further on or commented on. I didn’t want my comments checked for their ‘correctness’ in that way she does.

    I still can’t muster up much, if any, sympathy for Jimmy, whose ears are closed to the cries of suffering children.

    And if it’s who I think it is that thinks *they* started this, well that’s a gentle loving soul that I wish didn’t feel that way.

    Kudos to you Miss Daisy for hosting this.

    • @ Beaker.
      Agreed with everything in your post, especially this:

      I also find the kind of religious language used by V, & C come to that, very difficult. It mostly sounds insincere to my ear, & very passive aggressive, & also made me jump over many threads I would have read further on or commented on. I didn’t want my comments checked for their ‘correctness’ in that way she does.

      I got to the point where I usually scrolled past 99% of Christiane’s posts on TWW and didn’t read them.

      I sometimes would skim a few lines every now and then. She’s sort of the female equivalent of John Piper with the flowery prose.

      I also don’t have the patience to stop and decipher what she’s really trying to say, since a lot of her writing is indirect or vague. It takes too much brain power to process what she’s “really” trying to say.

      When you mention ‘Jimmy,’ do you mean the guy behind the Whiner blog?

      You said,

      Kudos to you Miss Daisy for hosting this.

      You’re welcome.

      Neither Velour nor Christiane has come here to leave comments, even after I reminded them both on Wade’s blog that they can do so.

      Last I saw at Wade’s site, Christiane was expressing (feigned?) confusion of others expressing displeasure about her using Wade’s blog to connect with Velour.

      I don’t think she understands it’s kind of poor blog etiquette to use someone else’s blog comment box to go off-topic to have a sustained personal chit chat with another person over nothing having to do with the blog post’s original topic. She should’ve created a second e-Mail account and shot off an e-mail to Velour.

      Velour keeps repeating the same untrue things about TWW and what went down in that thread over at Wade’s blog, which I find frustrating. I wonder if she even read the two part response I left her there a few days ago.

      She has this on-going motiff about how everyone at TWW supposedly hates addicts, that the thread should have listed links to resources for addicts (when that was not even the purpose of the thread), etc.

      I don’t know how many times I have to tell her I have addicts in my own family.

      Nothing gets through to her, she’s stuck on this narrative.

      • Hi Daisy, I mean Seneca Griggs/James Brown/Jimmy (as he originally used at TWW). I visited his site…oh man…there are no words.

  17. “There is a level of grandiosity in her responses, plus their repetitive nature that makes me uneasy. ”

    Yep

    “I didn’t want my comments checked for their ‘correctness’ in that way she does.”

    I can relate. 😦

  18. Read her comments carefully. See if she is ever specific about anything. This is a clue to a much bigger problem. I am increasingly concerned that something is going to erupt in the near future. There are clues in her comments.

    There are some things that have been intimated that have caused me to be a bit concerned about our safety. And it has nothing at all to do with the teams and reams of lawyers, legal groups and expert dentists (lots and lots of them) that she is discussing.

    Please keep us in your thoughts in prayers as we try to figure out how to proceed.

    My husband is wandering around making stupid Fatal Attraction jokes. However, he does make me smile.

    • I will absolutely pray.

      I will reference M Scott Peck’s book, People of the Lie, in which he posits that narcissism (and I would add, especially of the malignant variety) is the purest form of evil. There is no empathy. Others merely exist to feed the narcissist’s ego. They have no other purpose. And if they defy that purpose, they must be crushed to preserve the narcissistic fantasy view of superiority.

    • @ Dee
      And to think I have been heavily criticized on other sites (where I write under other names) for not writing under my real name.

      Some people get very irate when or if you won’t give your real name.

      I was stalked before by a few different guys, and that was mostly when I was using my real name online.

      This is one reason – people who may have a vendetta or who are mentally troubled – I do not use my real name on internet forums or blogs any more, or give out too much identifying information about myself.

      I’m not faulting others who write under their real names, for whatever the reason, I’m just saying I feel safer using a screen name.

      I probably should not have left those comments to her at Wade’s blog the other day – someone told me not to (I did so before seeing their private notes). I am just so tired of her repeating the same set of falsehoods, and they go unchallenged. It’s tempting to want to leave a comeback.

      I hope she loses interest in all this and doesn’t bother you any longer.

      edit. If I am remembering correctly, I think on one or two threads at TWW that Velour was pushing me to tell her where I live – she and I had a disagreement about Muslims.

      She was saying that I must live in a part of the country where there are not many Muslims.

      I refused to tell her exactly where I lived. I now wonder if she was subtly pressuring me into divulging where I live? I’m glad I did not reveal where I live.

      • Well at least I know that my real name is Beakerj, & that I do have orange hair & googly eyes. And I live in England, protected by a vast ocean & some small dogs.

        • @ Beaker J

          Well at least I know that my real name is Beakerj, & that I do have orange hair & googly eyes. And I live in England, protected by a vast ocean & some small dogs.

          I love Beaker from the Muppets.

          I like Beaker from The Muppets TV show, and I like Zombie movies, so I was thrilled to see this online a few years ago:
          Beaker the Zombie Hunter (on “Fashionably Geek” site)

      • Yeah…I’m a little uneasy that she knows where I live. She actually posted it when we got in our little verbal scuffle a couple months ago on the open thread. Sigh.

        • @ Jeannette

          Yeah…I’m a little uneasy that she knows where I live. She actually posted it when we got in our little verbal scuffle a couple months ago on the open thread. Sigh.

          I’m sorry that happened to you.

          Veldemort would sometimes subtly pressure people to reveal where they live, but I never personally fell for it.

          I guess there is a silver lining to having been stalked online a few years ago by different people. I learned to never, ever give out too much information about myself precisely so that mentally unbalanced people or people who want revenge can’t figure out exactly where I am to harm me verbally or physically.

          She used to ask other people often, “where do you live.”

          Something seemed off about that to me that she was intent on learning people’s locations. Why would someone’s location matter to whatever point they were making?

          • The thing is, I don’t recall ever telling her where I live nor her asking. It is possible sometime in the far past before these two joined the TWW crew that I may have mentioned it, but I don’t think I ever got more specific than a region, not a town. It did unnerve me when she put it in a comment me.

            • @ Jeannette

              The thing is, I don’t recall ever telling her where I live nor her asking. It is possible sometime in the far past before these two joined the TWW crew that I may have mentioned it, but I don’t think I ever got more specific than a region, not a town. It did unnerve me when she put it in a comment me.

              That is very odd and creepy of her.

              Was your location ever mentioned on your fund raising sites?

              Maybe she googled your name, and it came up on another site?

              There is just something rather creepy and inappropriate about someone being very determined about knowing where another poster is living.

              Unless they have a very good reason for bringing it up, if it’s pertinent to their point.

              One poster on there (on TWW), for instance, seemed to assume I’m really dense about racism, and she assumed I’ve never lived around black people. She also assumed that New Orleans is a seething bed of racism.

              I told her no, I lived in New Orleans, Louisiana for several years and had many black friends, neighbors, etc., while there. I didn’t have a problem with black people, and most black and white people got along fine there.

              I did mention at TWW I’ve lived in Houston, Texas and New Orleans, LA, but I never once listed any of the other cities / states I’ve lived in. I sure as heck never have revealed my current location.

              And btw, in Houston, there are Muslims and people from places like India, Pakistan, etc. I worked with, and lived among, all these people. I also had black neighbors in one Houston neighborhood I lived in.

              Veldemort kept assuming on TWW that I never met, worked with, or be-friended a non-caucasian person in my life – it was so patronizing. (I myself am part caucasian but also part non-caucasian.)

              It’s very unsettling that she posted your location and tried to keep getting me (and others) to say where we lived.

              • I’m sure, since I use my real name now, it’s probably not too hard to figure out. But I didn’t put it in my fundraising and don’t recall it asking. For me, the point is that she would have had to put effort inot digging to find that information. And that is, indeed, creepy. On a very subtle level, even intimidating.

                I used to blog and post under a pseudonym, mainly to protect my family. But as my family dynamic shifted, I felt more free to use my real name. Now, with the way things have unfolded with this, I am second guessing the wisdom of that choice.

  19. http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2015/12/27/the-real-victims-of-victimhood/

    My throw away advice: Read this several times very carefully.

    “The problem is that the line is fuzzy between fighting for victimized people and promoting a victimhood culture. Where does the former stop and the latter start? I offer two signposts for your consideration.

    First, look at the role of free speech in the debate. Victims and their advocates always rely on free speech and open dialogue to articulate unpopular truths. They rely on free speech to assert their right to speak. Victimhood culture, by contrast, generally seeks to restrict expression in order to protect the sensibilities of its advocates. Victimhood claims the right to say who is and is not allowed to speak.

    What about speech that endangers others? Fair-minded people can discriminate between expression that puts people at risk and that which merely rubs some the wrong way. Speaking up for the powerless is often “offensive” to conventional ears.

    Second, look at a movement’s leadership. The fight for victims is led by aspirational leaders who challenge us to cultivate higher values. They insist that everyone is capable of — and has a right to — earned success. They articulate visions of human dignity. But the organizations and people who ascend in a victimhood culture are very different. Some set themselves up as saviors; others focus on a common enemy. In all cases, they treat people less as individuals and more as aggrieved masses.”

    V and C played off each other for a long time. Shame censoring. One was bold, the other deceptive. Both use victimology to promote and position themselves because that was always their real goal. Neither is concerned for the very basics of right and wrong or real victims. And I fear Wades antinomianism plays into this. When it comes down to it, these types never have your back. Ever. They are too busy “positioning” themselves to benefit.

    For some interesting insight into forgiveness and how it plays out with manipulators and sociopaths here are some good things to remember:

    http://www.nacr.org/resource-center-on-emotional-and-relational-health/the-f-word-forgiveness-and-its-imitations

    Patterns. Patterns. Patterns.

    • @ Lydia.

      Thanks for the information. The article on victim culture looks especially interesting.

      Just a bit of this blog’s boring admin trivia for you: I think I have the blog currently set to allow up to six links per post before a post hits moderation (to limit spammers who are trying to sell insurance or siding or whatever).

      I’m fine that you posted links, I’m just letting you know that in the future for any reason should you post seven or more links the post will sit in moderation until I “okay” it.

      Here is another link, one that you may find interesting:

      Microaggressions and The Rise of Victimhood Culture (on The Atlantic)

      That page partially reproduces an e-mail conversation between a college girl and guy, and it is so bizarre. It gives a window into current liberal ideas and attitudes about victimhood, discrimination, etc. and it’s just so very weird.

      Sometimes the right wing can engage in victimhood culture posturing, but IMHO, it seems far worse and more common on the left.

      You said,

      V and C played off each other for a long time. Shame censoring. One was bold, the other deceptive. Both use victimology to promote and position themselves because that was always their real goal. Neither is concerned for the very basics of right and wrong or real victims. And I fear Wades antinomianism plays into this. When it comes down to it, these types never have your back. Ever. They are too busy “positioning” themselves to benefit.

      I agree.

    • This is a very good synopsis of the dynamics in play. It is a large part of why I backed off of participation at TWW…I just didn’t have the will to try and craft comments that didn’t draw a response from them.

      The article on forgiveness is really good. Every person in church leadership (at least the ones that are genuinely in it for ministry and not profit) would benefit from reading it.

      • @ Jeannette said,

        This is a very good synopsis of the dynamics in play. It is a large part of why I backed off of participation at TWW…I just didn’t have the will to try and craft comments that didn’t draw a response from them.

        Christiane and Veldemort were one of the reasons I lessened my participation at TWW.

        If I was on there, I would usually scroll past their comments without reading.

        I sometimes felt as though I was the only person that would push back against Veldemort. I couldn’t gauge TWW sentiment about her, though.

        I wanted to stand up more when she was being difficult, but the culture at that blog is such, you’re thinking,
        “Can I be firm with this person, or do the other blog members here really like her, and will they get all protective of her and yell at me that I’m “being mean” for standing up to her?”

        So a lot of times, I would let things go and not challenge Velour. I often would just back off, and drop out of a thread where she was getting argumentative about Islam or whatever.

  20. By the way, threatening people whether by legal means or other harm is NOT free speech “dialogue”. The only thing to discuss now is between lawyers, right? How can trust be built after that threat? Best to find detente and move on. Christians don’t seek revenge but they do protect themselves and their families from such types. At least I hope so. Maybe Wade can broker it, he has done that quite a bit in the past….. leaving real victims thinking….what just happened? He is now defending the person who did the evil! Instant repentance. No change of direction required. Shampoo, rinse, repeat.

    • Lydia said,

      By the way, threatening people whether by legal means or other harm is NOT free speech “dialogue”. The only thing to discuss now is between lawyers, right? How can trust be built after that threat?

      Bringing up lawyers and legal threats seems to be part of Veldemort’s repertoire.

      My gut feeling is it is all bluster, meant to intimidate, and that she’s not quite rational.

      But certainly, bringing up legal threats over a mundane blog upset does make it seem as though it would make things harder to resolve or talk over.

      And she seems very, unusually, alarmingly dedicated to these narratives she’s concocted, (how everyone at TWW hates addicts and they don’t realize that there is a drug addiction epidemic in the US, etc)

      I remember when I was put on slow moderation at TWW, I complained once or twice at another blog about it and got cranky at TWW for a few weeks, but I never once threatened TWW with legal action, nor did it ever cross my mind. That is just not a normal reaction.

      Or maybe she was just bringing that up because Deb asked her to remove TWW blog stuff from her own blog?

  21. I don’t take repeated threats as bluster. It’s escalating when repeated this much. V has a safe place and support with an audience– to threaten. Her claim to being right is all encompassing. Christiane could have emailed her privately and talked her down off this ledge as her main influencer and supposed BFF on TWW. But she chose to keep it public because it affords her the best means to manipulate things back to her corner. And she is doing a masterful job.

    The article on forgiveness is very helpful for people who are dealing with “evil Christians” (yes, it’s a thing). It took me a long time to dive into the depths of forgiveness and what it means. This article was the first I saw that touched on the problem.

    Ultimately, it’s giving up your right to do the same in kind. No eye for an eye. It doesn’t mean you “forget” your child was molested because the perp said sorry after being caught. It doesn’t mean you have to hang out with manipulators or abusers who got caught and then decided their Christianity suddenly kicked in. It doesn’t mean you have to attend church with a porno perp who is being “escorted” each week or even feel guilty for saying, uh, no thanks.

    Often, it means walking away. Even Jesus has a condition for forgiveness. Repent and believe. We don’t take it seriously. I mean, just how bad can we be as believers? Were molesting priests or youth pastors , believers? If so, the resurrection doesn’t mean much that children can be harmed! Seriously?

    We gotta take it all back to Genesis. Basic right and wrong. Good and evil. We have to stand up for people who are wronged. Not just the ones wronging others. It’s ridiculous. And out of control. Everything is becoming meaningless and turned on its head by being so twisted. The Gospel. Kindness. Church. Forgiveness. Evil. It means whatever people want it to mean at the moment. And REAL victims always fall through the cracks while everyone is soooo busy ministering to the perps and calling it mercy. For some reason, real victims are not as glamorous as the perps. And people can be their “saviors” and look really pious.

    • Took a look at Pastor Wade’s blog. It’s definitely taken a turn for the strange.

      There is a pathology at play. The closest analogy is Jim Carrey’s character from “The Cable Guy”.

      Everything is sunshine and lollipops until there’s a disagreement or challenge.

      “Velour” is showing a darker persona, there’s almost an obsession with this desire to be “right” that the original disagreement has pretty much been completely obfuscated (if it was ever there).

      And “Christiane” has an obsession with having the “passive-aggressive” last word. She likes to pontificate (yes, pun intended)

      I seriously doubt any attorneys (“big time” or otherwise) or even WordPress for that matter give two beans about a blog disagreement. The only time I see anyone stepping in would be if there was some form of hate speech, slander, copyright infringement or plagiarism. TWW didn’t do any of that.

      That being said, I also seriously doubt Deb asking “Velour” to remove links and reposts is a first amendment issue. LOL, I’m not even American and I can figure that out – what First Amendment Rights group? This is borderline delusional.

      It’s an attempt at libel chill – which may work, if it was done right. But this “case” doesn’t hold water.

      It just goes to show you can’t know anyone online, people can misrepresent themselves in all sorts of ways.

      That being said, what’s on Pastor Wade’s blog is quickly degenerating into a smear campaign.

      There is nothing at this point that will fix this. As long as they believe they have a sympathetic or potentially sympathetic audience, they’ll keep posting to Pastor Wade’s space. Pastor Wade is willing to allow it and they know it’s linked to TWW through eChurch.

      I have a new term for that –

      “Blog Squatting – when you co-opt the comments section of someone else’s blog with comments that have nothing to do with the blog post to further an ulterior agenda. Often done when your own blog fails to generate traffic”

      My advice – be glad you have a continent between you all and everyone cease responding. No audience, no fire, no encouragement. I’m pretty sure it’ll run its course. Don’t try to communicate or reason with them, that bus left the terminal. “cut bait” as it were.

      Unless there’s something I’m missing, I don’t even think there’s personal danger involved. Just don’t escalate it.

      And I wouldn’t worry about any posts to the Wartburg Whiner either – That’s like talking to yourself in an empty room.

      • I am having a good laugh about Wartburg Whiners. Seneca just banned me for two weeks for my *amusing* comment. I think he was irritated that I used his real name, James *JImmy* Brown He was outed years ago. I hope he lets me know for sure.

      • @ John Hotchkiss

        Everything in your post was spot on.

        You said,

        It just goes to show you can’t know anyone online, people can misrepresent themselves in all sorts of ways.

        Absolutely. I guess I will take this opportunity now to admit I’m really a kitty cat.

        (Naw, I’m joking. I’m not as furry or as adorable as the cat in the photo there)

        LOL at “Blog Squatting”

        If you’ve not already been posting at TWW, John H, I hope you start doing so.

        • I have commented at TWW though not recently. It’s one of the few religious blogs where Christianity is discussed in a common sense way. Similiar to the Christianity I was raised in.

          I think that in this time of uncertainty (particularly economic in most western countries) there has been a shift to a more literal view of the bible. Almost a “it’s either all true or our entire faith is a sham”.

          I also think that as science reveals more of the cosmos to us, from the quantum foam to edge of the known universe – with much of it contradicting the literal bible, this fuels the trend toward “fundamentalism” not just in Christianity but in all faiths. People cling to what comforts them and defend it(in some cases to the death). It’s hard to come to grips with a universe that doesn’t owe you anything.

          These are discussions that need to happen. If churches won’t do it then it has to come from the grassroots. Sites like TWW tackle some of these hard conversations.

  22. Hey all

    The Deebs are going silent for a few days. We will still be posting at TWW but will not discuss *certain* issues. I want to assure everyone that nothing is wrong. I really promise. We are not doing this because we are being threatened.It will help us with some thoughts we have. Please let everyone know that we are just fine.

    Daisy-thank you so much for allowing us to comment here. It is vital that it not happen on our blog. I want you to know that the other day GBTC convinced me why we should not post short links.I didn’t know a fee things. I finally understand. I didn’t realize a few things. In another week, when things settle down, email or tweet and I will explain it. I was surprised with the answer.

    • @ Dee
      Dee said,

      The Deebs are going silent for a few days. We will still be posting at TWW but will not discuss *certain* issues. I want to assure everyone that nothing is wrong. I really promise. We are not doing this because we are being threatened.It will help us with some thoughts we have. Please let everyone know that we are just fine.

      Okay.

      You’re very welcome for the ability to discuss this here.

      Neither of the other two ladies involved in this dispute ever took me up on an offer to post here, which they are welcome to do, if they want to refute anything anyone here has said, including me.

    • A good idea, though I would have couched the language with something akin to “strategic planning” and not even alluded to the “threats”.

      Religion is core to many peoples lives, and even those in our society who do not subscribe are affected. It’s the big elephant that everyone has to live with.

      This might sound like armchair quarterbacking but as the blog has seemed to grow, it might be a good time to think “mission statement”, “vision statement” and write some policies on engagement (limits and boundaries). Even criteria to vet who you allow to assist you – criteria and such.

      Sounds pretty corporate but even the smaller non-profits do this. It doesn’t mean it’s set in stone but it’s a guidance document that can determine the scope of the blog and keep it on track and manageable. Stuff you can go refer back to and amend as you see fit.

      “Dissecting Christian trends” is a great place to start.

      Best wishes.

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