• The Shifting Goal Posts of Complementarianism Show How Bankrupt It Is

The Shifting Goal Posts of Complementarianism Show How Bankrupt It Is

It’s telling that when complementarians start losing an argument on one point, they will re-define the argument or invent a new batch.

They will shift the goal posts. This is one indication of how bankrupt their gender theology is.

When complementarians began losing ground, in the last decade or so, to the arguments of non-complementarians, who pointed out that it makes no sense to insist that a woman be perpetually subordinate in role to men based on ontological reasons, they began dragging up the E.S.S. (Eternal Subordination of the Son) controversy, which states Jesus Christ is eternally subordinate to the Father.

You can read a bit more about that here:

Wade Burleson Critiques Eternal Subordination

These following pages contain examples by early church fathers of their views of women, and they’re not flattering or even charitable:

The Origins of Sexism in the Church – Junia Project (Christian site)

20 Vile Quotes Against Women By Religious Leaders From St. Augustine to Pat Robertson – AlertNet

Here are a few examples from the AlertNet page, comments by early Christians and their views of women:

Woman is a temple built over a sewer. Tertullian, “the father of Latin Christianity” (c160-225)

Woman was merely man’s helpmate, a function which pertains to her alone. She is not the image of God but as far as man is concerned, he is by himself the image of God. –Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)

I cannot imagine Jesus of Nazareth saying of any woman, not his mother Mary, not the prostitutes he met,  or any other woman, that they were “temples built over sewers.”

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• Housework, Dirty Dishes, Complementarianism and Personal Anecdotes

Housework, Dirty Dishes, Complementarianism and Personal Anecdotes

In most of the relationships and marriages I have personally known, the males are the gold-diggers who sit around all day watching football, going bar-hopping during the day, or playing games on the internet all day, while their wife or girlfriend holds down a full time job, pays all the bills, and also comes home to take care of the house-work because the lazy slobby men won’t clean dishes, fold laundry, or do anything else.

Doing housework is not rooted in gender.

A lot of biblical passages complementarians point to in order to substantiate their claims are not intended to be timeless directives, but were products of their time and meant for their time period or locale only.

There’s nothing in the Bible that teaches that washing dirty dishes or cleaning laundry is “woman’s work” or that says women are better suited for, or designed by God more so than a man, to clean a dirty house ( see “Workers at home” or “keepers at home” in Titus 2:5? and “Busy at Home”: How does Titus 2:4-5 apply today? )

I am a little puzzled, then, by complementarians who keep behaving as though American women in the year 2017 are still living in the same conditions, societal expectations, or value systems as American women of the 1950s, or the ancient Greeks and Romans with whom Paul visited, wrote to, or visited.

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• Complementarian Misrepresentations and Misunderstandings of Non-Comps and Feminism

Complementarian Misrepresentations and Misunderstandings of Non-Comps and of Feminism

I was a gender complementarian from the time I was a kid up until around my mid-30s.

As such, I understand exactly how complementarians think, and why they hold to complementarianism, because I was once one of them.

Comps (Complementarians) hold many inaccurate or untrue beliefs and assumptions about people who reject complementarianism, and they – like many right wing or Republican individuals – also have a lot of untrue or inaccurate ideas about feminism and feminists.

First of all, I should clarify from the start I myself am not a feminist. I have never been a feminist.

Secondly, I have never been a liberal or a Democrat. I am currently not a liberal, nor am I a Democrat.

From the time I was a teenager, I have been a conservative, and up until around the year 2015, I was a Republican (I am currently not affiliated with any political party or movement).

It’s quite important to mention both those points from the out-set because most complementarians (and secular conservatives) assume anyone who does not support traditional gender roles is of necessity a left winger, a feminist, or a SJW (social justice warrior).

Comps and secular right wingers further assume that any and all who do not embrace traditional gender roles must also hate the nuclear family, traditional marriage, children, parenting, or traditional values.

I’m going to clear up a few common misunderstandings or faulty assumptions complementarians (and secular conservatives) have of NCs (non-complementarians) and of feminists.

Not everyone who rejects gender complementarianism (traditional gender roles) is a liberal or a feminist.

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• Examples of Girls and Women Being Assertive at Work, in Life, Women as Rescuers and Heroines

Examples of Girls and Women Being Assertive at Work, in Life, Women as Rescuers and Heroines

Complementarians such as John Piper do not feel that women should work as police officers. Some complementarians do not believe women should work in combat positions in the military.

So bizarre and unbiblical has contemporary complementarianism become in the last few years (they have a never-ending list of mishnah-like rules they believe women should follow), that even other complementarians started to sit up and take notice, such as in this post: An Accidental Feminist.

The occasional complementarian troll shows up at spiritual abuse blogs to insist all women are weaker or more inept than men and should therefore not be in positions of control, combat, or assertiveness.

These complementarians feel they are basing their beliefs on the Bible, but the Bible does not limit women in the fashion they do, or insist that all women every where for all time, are delicate flowers who cannot be rugged, tough, or assertive.

Deborah and Jael in the Old Testament were warriors – Deborah was a judge who also led Israel’s military, and Jael killed an enemy combatant.

For more on that, please see these off-site posts:

Deborah – Israel’s Only Female Judge Was Both Wise and Courageous

Deborah and the “No Available Men” Argument

Who Was the Judge of Israel, Deborah or Barak?

What About Deborah? 

Searching for Deborah

None of this is to say that men and women are completely identical or to deny that some biological differences do exist between the sexes. Most men have more upper body strength than most women, for example, but it does not follow from this that it is appropriate, fair, or right to prohibit women from working in certain capacities in secular careers or in the church.

As I told one complementarian troll, the world has moved on, no matter how much complementarians wish it were not so – women are permitted by secular society in nations such as the United States to serve in combat positions in the military or to work as police officers, regardless of what he or John Piper or other complementarians think.

I have never understood the complementarian push back regarding women serving in the military: “But are you really prepared to see caskets come back with American flags on them, knowing there is dead female military personnel inside?”

This question implies several sexist and disturbing things, one of them being, that somehow a female life is more valuable than that of a male, so I object to it on that ground, among others. I would not be more alarmed or more weepy seeing a flag-draped coffin knowing there is a female body inside vs. knowing there is a male body inside.

If a woman is qualified and interested in serving in some role (police, military, whatever it may be), she should be permitted to do so and encouraged by friends, family, community, and church to do so. There is no “biblical” reason which states or even implies that women should not work in “assertive” type roles, such as military or police.

What I see from complementarians on this point – their objection to women serving in combat – usually derives from cultural conditioning, their personal convictions, and is, I suspect, due to sheer sentimentality – not due to what the Bible actually says.

This is a post that I may add to in the future. If or when I come across new links pertaining to the topics at hand, I may edit this post to add new links.

The post is divided into these categories:

-WOMEN IN LAW ENFORCEMENT

-WOMEN WARRIORS / WOMEN IN THE MILITARY

-WOMEN PROTECTORS, HEROINES, RESCUERS

-OFF-SITE RESOURCES ADDRESSING THE ISSUES ADDRESSED ON THIS PAGE

ON YOU TUBE (watch videos of or about some of the women mentioned in this post)

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• Not Exactly Always Hospitable for Non-Liberals: Ex or Liberal Christian Sites and Spiritual or Abuse Survivor Blogs & the Christian Trump-Bashing Infatuation

Not Exactly Always Hospitable for Non-Liberals: Ex or Liberal Christian Sites and Spiritual or Abuse Survivor Blogs & the Christian Trump-Bashing Infatuation 

I’ve been center of right, politically, since I was a kid.

I don’t know where I currently stand in regards to the Christian faith.

However, I still adhere to traditional values, which are pretty much in line with a conservative Christian understanding of the Bible.

Though I find myself somewhat more and more of a libertarian in outlook as I grow older, meaning, hey, I don’t agree with your lifestyle choices, but if you’re an adult, and it’s not hurting me or John Doe, I don’t really care what you do in your personal life.

I did not vote for anyone in the 2016 U.S. Presidential elections because I disliked all candidates.

However, I don’t care who YOU voted for, or if, like me, you sat that one out and did not cast a ballot at all.

I understand my Democrat friends who voted for Hillary and why. I understand my Democrat friends who hated Hillary so they were vying for Sanders.

I understand my Republican and conservative friends who loved Trump, or the ones who dislike Trump but hated Hillary more, so they went with Trump.

I also understand the folks who didn’t like either Trump or Hillary, so they went with a third party guy.

I am okay with any all all those above scenarios. I don’t get angry, offended, and upset by people, whether Christian or not, if they voted for Hillary, Trump, a third party candidate, or if they wrote “Mickey Mouse” on their ballot.

A lot of people had good reasons for why they voted as they did. Nobody, or I would suspect, hardly anyone, is a monster, rube, sexist, racist, or idiot just because they voted for one candidate or another, or did not vote at all.

It was a difficult election for just about every one, regardless of political stance.

That should give you an idea of where I am coming from.

EX CHRISTIAN, LIBERAL CHRISTIAN, OR SPIRITUAL ABUSE TWITTER ACCOUNTS OR BLOGS

In the last 3 to 4 years, I have participated on spiritual abuse blogs, and have lurked at Christian gender egalitarian forums, blogs, groups, and I have followed Christian gender egalitarians (or mutualists) on social media.

Can I just say as someone who is right of center, who holds to traditional values, I sometimes find such persons, groups, blogs, or Twitter accounts a little oppressive, myopic, or unfair?

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• Abuse, Codependency, and Males

The last time I checked my “Miss Daisy Flower” Twitter account, I received a Tweet from someone who sent me two links in response I did to a Tweet with a link to one of my blog posts – this one:  “Codependency Is Real And It Can Leave Women Vulnerable to Being Abused or Taken Advantage Of.”

The two links sent to me pertained to boys who had been sexually or physically abused – one story was based out of the U.K., and if I remember correctly, the other dealt with boys who had been sexually abused in some sort of Jewish religious context (by a rabbi or something).

At the moment, I’m too lazy to visit my account, log in, and re-read my notifications area to see exactly what those articles were (perhaps I’ll log back in later and post links to those articles in this post at a later time).

I did ask the person who Tweeted me what she was getting at, because at the time, I wasn’t sure. I didn’t understand the relevancy of the links she was tweeting at me. I mulled it over and now believe I may understand what she was trying to say. Here is my response.

I am a woman. I was born and raised in the United States. I was brought up in a traditional Christian family (of the Southern Baptist, evangelical variety) that believed in gender complementarianism (i.e., a belife in traditional gender roles buttressed by references to cherry picked or mis-applied Bible verses).

As I wrote in an older post,

Christian gender complementarianism is nothing but codependency for women

but it’s passed off by Christian gender complementarians as being “godly” or “God’s design” for women.

In blogging about abuse and codependency, I am most competent – and most interested in and familiar with – addressing codependency as it relates to girls and women in American culture and American Christianity.

All I can fathom at this point is that the individual who Tweeted me was perhaps assuming that saying that there are ties between some girls and women and abuse and codependency is some form of victim-blaming (or sexism?), which, as I explained in a previous post, no, it is not victim-blaming to point out the links between abuse of females and codependent behavior.

I’m a former codependent myself who used to attract users and abusers, and who used to silently endure abuse from certain family members for years, precisely because of my codependency – and I’m certainly not victim-blaming myself!

Some boys and men are codependent too. Yes, codependency in a male can make that male vulnerable to attracting mean, selfish, manipulative, controlling, or abusive people. This does not mean that such males are to “blame” for being abused or taken advantage of.

Some abusers or “mean” people, are, by the way, female! Over my life, in my personal and professional life, I’ve had both males and females use me, exploit me, abuse me, or be rude towards me.

Some boys and men learn codependent coping methods in childhood when abused and carry these mal-adaptive coping habits into adulthood. I learned this from reading books and blog posts and articles about codependency (and some about abuse).

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